(another) cool find from the grandfather's attic....

pgt · 03-10-2010, 04:01 PM

My grandfather died a decade ago and my wife has been scanning pictures from his belongings. He served in WWII in the Rome and Appenine campaigns, winning the Bronze Star.

In his dresser-top chest amongst military patches (88th Infantry) and captain's bars, we found a pair of cartridges. They're small.

Details:
#1 is stamped "III 1915 SB"
#2 is stamped "SBP 7.65"

They're identical....straight brass cases (so not German Luger) and silver colored bullets (that look like a Luger bullet).

I've done some searches and come up with a possible French origin (7.65 Longue) but the 1915 headstamp predates that option.

Any ideas?

pgt · 03-10-2010, 04:03 PM

7.65x17mm Browning SR or 7.65 mm Browning (.32 ACP)?

looks identical to the one on the right:

If so, I'd wonder why he had these. Perhaps something he owned post-war or a souvenir he picked up in Italy?

Adler · 03-10-2010, 04:46 PM

Looks like they are 32ACP which is 7.65 Brownng. The 7.65 French cartridge came much later so it could not have a 1915 headstamp, being first chambered in the French MAS1935 pistol.

One headstamp, the SBP 1915 one, is a Seller and Belloit headstamp. Since your grandfather was in Italy this makes sense. The Beretta 1935 Italian Air Force pistol was chambered in that caliber, as where the CZ27 Czech, and Walther PP & PPK pistols used by the Germans as substitutes for the standard Luger and Walther P38 pistols among others such as the Browning 1910/22, various Feg pistols, and other commercial French and German pistols like the Dreyse, MAB, ect.

pgt · 03-10-2010, 05:02 PM

somehow, I knew you'd be the one to get the answer first! Thanks a lot Adler....it does make sense.

My grandfather once told me that his undergrad degree was basic training for life, his masters was icing on the cake and his time spent in the Infantry taught him little he could use in life. It makes sense he would put something like those cartridges away, never to be seen, like the rest of the stuff we found.

some punk broke into his house in the early 1990's and stole most of the valuable stuff (bronze star, etc). my grandfather didn't much care...he'd put most of that away in a box and out of mind. guess that was typical of WWII vets.

Adler · 03-10-2010, 05:15 PM

You are welcome sir. The 32ACP was the favorite police cartridge in Europe until about the 1970's. So they were everywhere.

brucelee · 03-14-2010, 06:56 AM

adler FTW

Adler · 03-14-2010, 08:09 AM

Following the Munich Olympic games incident and the surge of terrorism in the 70's that changed and most departments went up to 9mm guns, with the French even going to 357 Magnums for their tactical units.

03-10-2010, 04:46 PM	#3
Adler Gunny At Large The Joker Last Online: 09-02-2010 06:00 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 7,366	Looks like they are 32ACP which is 7.65 Brownng. The 7.65 French cartridge came much later so it could not have a 1915 headstamp, being first chambered in the French MAS1935 pistol. One headstamp, the SBP 1915 one, is a Seller and Belloit headstamp. Since your grandfather was in Italy this makes sense. The Beretta 1935 Italian Air Force pistol was chambered in that caliber, as where the CZ27 Czech, and Walther PP & PPK pistols used by the Germans as substitutes for the standard Luger and Walther P38 pistols among others such as the Browning 1910/22, various Feg pistols, and other commercial French and German pistols like the Dreyse, MAB, ect. __________________ The Italians have a saying. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." And although they've never won a war or mass-produced a decent car, in this area they are correct.

03-10-2010, 05:15 PM	#5
Adler Gunny At Large The Joker Last Online: 09-02-2010 06:00 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 7,366	You are welcome sir. The 32ACP was the favorite police cartridge in Europe until about the 1970's. So they were everywhere. __________________ The Italians have a saying. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." And although they've never won a war or mass-produced a decent car, in this area they are correct.

03-14-2010, 06:56 AM	#6
brucelee Annihilator Mr. Head Gun Last Online: Today 11:42 AM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: In your nightmares Posts: 4,660	adler FTW __________________ When in doubt, ask Adler.

03-14-2010, 08:09 AM	#7
Adler Gunny At Large The Joker Last Online: 09-02-2010 06:00 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 7,366	Following the Munich Olympic games incident and the surge of terrorism in the 70's that changed and most departments went up to 9mm guns, with the French even going to 357 Magnums for their tactical units. __________________ The Italians have a saying. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." And although they've never won a war or mass-produced a decent car, in this area they are correct.

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03-10-2010, 04:01 PM	#1
pgt Gunatic Fanatic Last Online: Yesterday 05:51 PM Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 246	(another) cool find from the grandfather's attic.... My grandfather died a decade ago and my wife has been scanning pictures from his belongings. He served in WWII in the Rome and Appenine campaigns, winning the Bronze Star. In his dresser-top chest amongst military patches (88th Infantry) and captain's bars, we found a pair of cartridges. They're small. Details: #1 is stamped "III 1915 SB" #2 is stamped "SBP 7.65" They're identical....straight brass cases (so not German Luger) and silver colored bullets (that look like a Luger bullet). I've done some searches and come up with a possible French origin (7.65 Longue) but the 1915 headstamp predates that option. Any ideas?

03-10-2010, 04:03 PM	#2
pgt Gunatic Fanatic Last Online: Yesterday 05:51 PM Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 246	7.65x17mm Browning SR or 7.65 mm Browning (.32 ACP)? looks identical to the one on the right: If so, I'd wonder why he had these. Perhaps something he owned post-war or a souvenir he picked up in Italy?

03-10-2010, 05:02 PM	#4
pgt Gunatic Fanatic Last Online: Yesterday 05:51 PM Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 246	somehow, I knew you'd be the one to get the answer first! Thanks a lot Adler....it does make sense. My grandfather once told me that his undergrad degree was basic training for life, his masters was icing on the cake and his time spent in the Infantry taught him little he could use in life. It makes sense he would put something like those cartridges away, never to be seen, like the rest of the stuff we found. some punk broke into his house in the early 1990's and stole most of the valuable stuff (bronze star, etc). my grandfather didn't much care...he'd put most of that away in a box and out of mind. guess that was typical of WWII vets.